It’s been 1.5 years since I posted “I want a HARP loan but I have PMI” and I’m happy to report that there have been many positive developments since then.
The implementation of HARP 2.0 has drastically improved the options for homeowners who have PMI. However, since HARP 2.0 is so new, many homeowners are still having difficulties finding lenders willing to help them. This is especially true if they have a specific type of PMI that isn’t widely supported. Let me share the latest info I have on PMI HARP loans.
First, let’s address the big 3 banks:
- Wells Fargo- Wells Fargo has done a good job supporting their customers by offering a wide variety of HARP options including PMI loans even before HARP 2.0 was released. With HARP 2.0, they can now lend with no loan-to-value limit. They are supporting most types of PMI but are not doing any LPMI HARP loans
- Chase- Chase is the only bank that offered all versions of HARP to their customers, and also supported PMI HARP loans long before HARP 2.0 was released. Chase will do most HARP loans but they are also not supporting LPMI loans
- Bank of America- Thank goodness Bank of America is finally joining Chase and Wells! They will now do PMI HARP loans, rental properties, and HARP loans with subordinated second mortgages. These features were all standard at Wells Fargo and Chase, but Bank of America had traditionally limited their HARP options. As I mentioned above, this is no longer the case. Bank of America has adopted a HARP product selection similar to Wells Fargo and Chase. Unfortunately, there are several types of PMI that Bank of America is not supporting – this includes LPMI. Additionally, there are some types of monthly paid PMI that they do not support.
In summary, if your loan is with one of these three banks, most HARP options other than LPMI loans are supported. I’ve spoken to representatives at these banks and they do not anticipate supporting LPMI loans at this time. If you do not have LPMI, it’s worth checking with your lender about what options they can provide. Also remember that it’s worth checking with outside lenders to see if they can offer a more competitive price.
Next, let’s address PMI HARP loan options outside of the big banks.
Many lenders are now supporting HARP 2.0 that include options for borrowers with PMI. You will see a mixed array of lenders supporting PMI HARP loans and the mix often varies based on the state your property is in. The PMI company insuring your loan and the type of PMI you have will be critical in determining your eligibility. Some lenders will only do HARP loans for certain PMI companies; others will work with all PMI companies. Here is a list of the 6 biggest PMI companies who may be backing your loan. In order to determine your specific type of PMI, you will need to contact your PMI company.
- Genworth- 1-800-444-5664 http://mortgageinsurance.genworth.com
- MGIC-1-800-558-9900 http://mgic.com/origination/refi_to_mod.html
- Radian- – 1-877-radian1 http://www.radian.biz/page?name=HomeownerHelp
- United Guaranty- 1-877-642-4642 https://www.ugcorp.com/services/harp.html
- RMIC (Closed but supporting HARP PMI loans) 1-800-999-7642 http://www.rmic.com/productsandservices/recovery/Pages/default.aspx#harp
- PMI Mortgage Insurance Company- (Closed but supporting HARP) 800-366-1143 http://www.pmi-us.com/lenders/harp.html
As I mentioned above, the particular type of PMI you have will determine which lenders will want to work with you. Here is a list of the four options in the order of most-supported to least-supported:
- If you pay your PMI monthly, you’ll have the highest chance of being supported by HARP
- If you had LPMI where the PMI premium was paid all upfront, you’ll have a handful of lenders who will support you
- If you had a “Split-Premium” where a portion was paid upfront and you still pay monthly, fewer lenders will support you
- If you have LPMI where your servicer is paying the PMI company monthly, you’ll have the least amount of support
For options 2 and 4, in some cases Radian and MGIC are willing to convert your PMI to monthly paid to help you qualify. I’ve asked representatives at Genworth and United Guaranty if they are making similar accommodations and they told me “they are considering all options” to support the homeowners.
If you have LPMI and your lender paid the premium upfront (option 2), I would highly recommend seeking a lender who will do your HARP loan without converting your PMI to a monthly premium. Your PMI was already paid upfront and no further premiums are needed. By converting to a monthly premium, you’re paying additional and unnecessary PMI.
If your PMI is paid monthly by your lender, it is nearly impossible to obtain a HARP loan unless you convert the PMI to a monthly premium. Again, only Radian and MGIC is offering this at the moment. Furthermore, the big 3 banks are not supporting LPMI loans converted to monthly even though they will do standard monthly PMI HARP loans. If you find the frustrating, I am right there with you. I have had exhausting discussions representatives at the banks. It’s probably not worth wasting your time discussing it with them. Of course, if I hear of any changes or developments, I’ll be sure to update this post.
Some lenders are exclusively “Loan Servicers”. This means they cannot do HARP loans as they only collect your payments. If you contact them about HARP, they may refer you to an outside lender, but the lender they refer you to cannot do more than any other outside lender, so be sure to shop around to get the best rate and price if this is your situation. Here is a list of the biggest servicer-only lenders I receive calls about:
- Seterus
- Cenlar
- Greentree
It is a relief to be able to write posts discussing options and opportunities that can help consumers shop for their HARP loan instead of explaining reasons why they cannot refinance. Here are two more posts that will be helpful in the event that you are able to refinance with the HARP program.
These posts should help you prepare for the process, find the best rate, and find the best professional to help you.
My mortgage servicer is Green Tree Servicing, and my PMI is through Triad Guaranty, one of the smaller PMI companies. In February, Triad just started allowing mortgages backed by their PMI to be transferred to a different servicer. I have been turned by several banks and mortgage companies (both small and large) with reasons including “our investors aren’t on board” and “we only allow refinances for mortgages with PMI through XYZ companies.” I am currently waiting to hear back from three lenders to determine if they are able to offer a HARP refinance to my wife and me.
Thomas,
What state are you in? Is your loan backed by Fannie or Freddie?
Hi Keane,
I’m in Minnesota. Yes, my loan is backed by Fannie. You gave me a referral on your other post about HARP loan refinancing for mortgages with PMI, though I haven’t received a response yet.
I called my lender seterus in January about harp told to call Quicken Loan told by Quicken loan my ltv is more than 125% to cacall back in march. Called Quicken Loan on 4/9/12 told still haven’t started Harp 2 possibility this month or May. Has anyone else ran into similar problems with Quicken Loans.
Marlena,
There are several lenders that are offering HARP 2.0 as a non-servicing lender. The common trend is that most lenders will lend above 125% if Fannie/Freddie give you an appraisal waiver because they are relieved of any representation or warranty related to the value.
What state are you in? I can maybe get a lender for you. It’s not that Quicken isn’t a good lender, but the product they would be offering is no different than any outside lender. Even if they could do the loan, you would still be able to shop this loan with other potential lenders.
Hi, we recently discovered while trying to refinance under HARP that Bank of America placed LPMI on our mortgage without our knowledge. When denying our request they referred us to our closing documents for the LPMI disclosure, but all we found were several references specifically stating that there was NO PMI on the loan. Do you have any advice on how to get information from Bank of America about our LPMI? (we don’t know what company it is with, when it started, nor how it is paid.)
Do we have any recourse other than to keep searching for a bank willing to work with our unwanted LPMI? (the HUD adviser we spoke with informed us that we ARE eligible for HARP) Is what Bank of America did even legal? It really seems like they harmed our ability to take advantage of HARP, despite the revisions intended to help people with PMI.
I have received a two estimates from lenders, but I am being told that I cannot lock rates for a 15 year fixed mortgage until June 1. Our home’s LTV is between 100 and 105%. Is this true?
Jeremy,
I’m not sure about legality, as I’ve seen these documents and I also have never seen a disclosure stating there’s PMI. The good news is many lenders can do HARP loans where the PMI is transferred.
Thomas,
It’s partially true. June 1st is when Fannie Mae will offer this product at the higher loan-to-values but if you’re under 105%, you should be fine now.
Hi. I really appreciate the great information you’ve provided here. I have a question. I currently have a mortgage with PMI and am looking into doing a HARP refinance. The bank I’m working with on the refi said that my PMI provider (MGIC) charges a fee of .50% of the loan amount to transfer the loan over plus the monthly premiums will continue (my loan is with Greentree, so I have to change banks to refinance). I don’t want to pay that fee and am considering making a lump sum payment towards my mortgage principle so I can cancel PMI. My question is, will the bank I refinance with nonetheless require PMI if the LTV on the refi is greater than 80% given the drop in the value of my home?
Kristin,
This is the first I’ve heard of a PMI company charging for a transfer but it’s not totally alarming.
You will only be able to cancel the PMI if you do a traditional refinance at 80% loan-to-value. Are you under 95%? If so, you may be able to do a traditional/conventional loan and pay an upfront PMI premium. The cost will be more than .5% but you won’t have any monthly PMI.
Hi,
Like most people on here, I am looking to refinance under HARP and I have PMI. I am actually a the tail end of PMI (below 80%, and a year from 78%), and while I might be able to get a refinance with a lender, the big open question for me is what the terms will be for the PMI. It sounds like PMI would start all over, based on the estimated value of my home, which is way below the amount of the new loan. This mean I would pay PMI again for potentially many many years.
Are there are guidelines that regulate the PMI when it is transfered from one load to another? Basically, should the original schedule still apply?
Thanks for any information you can provide in this regard
Keane,
I have a similiar situation to one of the early commenters on this page. I currently have a loan that is 132%LTV, backed by Fannie, serviced by Seterus, and PMI through Triad Guaranty. I first tried refinancing with AimLoan who got approval from Fannie, but once AimLoan found Triad Guaranty as the PMI company they stopped the refinance process. Next I called QuickenLoans as suggested by Seterus. QuickenLoans also denied my application when I told them PMI is provided by Triad. Is there any lenders in Florida that will refinance with HARP 2.0 in my situation.
Thanks
Jeremiah,
Interesting. We don’t see that PMI company often. I would first check Triad to see if they have a policy in place to transfer the PMI, then seek a lender. You won’t be able to get your refinance done unless Triad is willing to transfer the PMI to a new lender.
We have Triad as well and are in process of refinancing. Looks possible so far. Triad just changed their policy in Feb to allow PMI transfer to new servicers
@Thomas.
Sounds like you are having some success. What company are you using for the refinance. I have been on the phone all week trying to locate a mortgage company who will refinance with Triad as the PMI company. So far I tried QuickenLoans, AmeriSave, Chase, BOA, Greenlight Loans, and AimLoan. Triad says they are not able to provide a list of lenders who they have successfully closed with because it would show favortism.
My mortage is with BofA in Ct..pmi is rolled into the loan..Loan officer states I don’t qualify for Harp..will let me know sometime in the future if the situation changes..I’m being “stalled”…what are my options?
Robert,
That is called a Lender-Paid-Mortgage-Insurance loan. Most outside lenders who participate can help you. I’ll email you a referral.
Jeremiah and Thomas,
See if there’s a broker who’s approved with Everbank. They will work with any PMI company. I’m not sure if they lend in your state but they don’t have restrictions on the PMI company.
Didier,
The clock starts over. The policy will cancel when you reach 78% of the original balance with no request or at 80% if you request the cancellation.
@Keane,
Thanks for info. Today I contacted EverBank’s mortgage dept and they are checking on the MI transfer. I have been in contact with Triad and they do have a process to transfer the MI, it’s a matter of EverBank working with them through the process. I will provide an update when I hear back from the loan officer.
Got some good news today. AimLoan.com is now setup with Triad to transfer MI policies. One more hurdle cleared.
Jeremiah,
That’s good to know. FYI, a fake poster pretended to have had their loan done by Aim.com as spam. Although it’s good to hear they will do these, I do not and cannot endorse a lender who falsely advertises to get business. Lack of transparency and honesty to a consumer is the heart of the problems we’ve been trying to fix in this industry.
If anyone from Aim.com reads this, I want you to know that I have no problem endorsing other lenders and am willing to refer business. However, pretending to be a customer and lying to the public will not win any business on my site.
Everbank was very helpful. They did some initial investigation about the Triad policy transfer and said they would be able to do it. I won’t be pursuing my loan with them at this time because it looks like it will close with another lender.
Great post. Question though – I have LPMI, paid upfront at closing (scenario 2, from your post), and my loan is with BoA (it was sold to Countrywide a few months after closing with a small, local company who is no longer in business). My problem though, is I have no record, and BoA can’t tell me who holds my MI. I’ve talked to at least half a dozen other banks, and all have told me that if I don’t know who holds the MI, they can’t help me. Is there ANY way to get this info? I’ve gone all the way to BoA’s CEO’s office, and I still don’t have any answers.
Thanks.
Brian,
Any loan officer at BOA can answer this for you. I’ll send you a contact.
I am relieved that I am not the only person struggling with a Harp 2.0 refinance. my loan is serviced by Seterus and I have been turned away by Wells Fargo and US Bank due to my PMI. Both have stated that I qualify based on Fannie Mae owning my mortgage and all other requirements but they will only refinance under harp with PMI if they are the servicer. My mortgage statement shows money coming out of my escrow insurance account monthly so I assume I have monthly PMI, but how do I know with who? any thoughts on my next lender I reach out to? I am in Nebraska.
Hi. I have a Freddie Mac loan with PMI and I have been turned down multiple times for refinance. Does anyone know what bank will do a refinance with PMI/Freddie Mac? I heard a program may be put in place soon for people like me but it is just a rumor. Does anyone know for sure if this is coming? I’ve been turned down by Wells, Chase, Quicken Loans and a loan officer who dug into my info turned me down this morning. Help!
Seterus loan in Michigan. 800 credit score. United Guaranty is the issue – I do not know if I’m paying the PMI monthly (I don’t think so as it is not on the statements) or if there is some other PMI arrangement. Is there any hope for us with UG and we do not pay it monthly? I’m at 6% currently. Mike
Chris,
Those banks will only do a HARP loan if the loan is with them. Email me the lender, state and the type of PMI you have and I’ll refer you to someone.
I have a LPMI loan (which I didnt know – since I specifically told my lender I didnt want PMI when I started the process in ’07), but then found out, that it’s LPMI. Anyways, I’m stuck, because BOA has my loans serviced by Green Tree Servicing and wont do anything about it. Any Lenders out there who can work with me? I’ve tried BOA, PNC & both wont work. Any other choices? I’ve got excellent credit and no missed payments.
Thanks
Murali,
Yes, there are several lenders who can likely help you now. What state are you in? I can refer you to somebody.
I seem to be in the same boat as Murali. Condo with LPMI through BoA. Have not found a lender yet that will refiance me under HARP 2.0. I’m in Kansas City, Missouri if that makes any difference.
Thanks!
Best thing to do Jason is to contact a Mortgage Broker. BoA sucks. All they do is take Government Bail out money and then leave us to dry. Atleast the Harp 2.0 will work for you if you’re backed by Fannie or Freddie. Quicken Loans will work with you on this if you’re insured by MGIC or alike.
Murali is right. I’ll email you a contact who can help you. BOA will not touch most LPMi loans.
Keane,
Thanks for such an informative blog and helping so many navigate this sometimes head turning experience.
I have a loan through Chase (transferred when they bought Washington Mutual) and it is backed by Fannie May. I called Chase today and asked about a refi through Harp 2.0 and the mortgage consultant told me my loan was a recourse loan. He said I would have to call Fannie May and find out why, but that it was a bad debt loan? What does that mean for me?
Thanks
Scott,
Interesting. Recourse or non-recourse is usually a term to define if the lender can or cannot come after you for a debt if there were a foreclosure.
You could try applying with an outside lender on the DU Refi Plus program. Feel free to email me the state you live in and I can refer you to a lender.
My loan was originally written by Chase and has subsequently been transferred to Seterus for servicing. The loan has LPMI. Chase wouldn’t help us do a HARP 2 since they moved the loan along: they will only help current customers. I was able to get Wells Fargo to do the HARP 2, but they ran into a snag where Genworth Mortgage Insurance will only release the PMI insurance certificate to the current lender (who really isn’t a lender – only a servicer). They said it went all the way up the chain of command to no avail. I seem to be stuck. Any help is appreciated!
Rob,
That’s odd. Genworth is usually one of the easier ones to work with. I know some people who work there. What state are you in?
I am in Arizona. Any Suggestions is much appreciated.
I’m in Ohio. I found it odd that because Fannie Mae listed my loan as a recourse that would stop Chase from being able to refi me under Harp 2.0, as my understanding was the refi would end up being a recourse.
Keane, I’m (still) in the same boat as Murali — do you have any Atlanta or Georgia contacts that could help? BofA, LPMI, fantastic credit, HARP-eligible, never missed a payment…
I spoke too soon; BofA had told me that we would be eligible June 1, and it is actually true. I’m on the phone right now, beginning the process. Finally!
Scott,
I’ll connect you with two people. One with Chase and another with an outside company just to make sure we exercise all your options.
RK,
That’s great news! Few things, if you’re eligible with outside lenders, be sure to shop. You should read this post:
http://www.keaneloans.com/2012/03/05/why-is-my-harp-rate-so-high/
Good luck!
My current LTV is just under 105% based on an appraisal that doesn’t make sense (same floor plan, slightly better location, sold for 480k while mine came in at 380k due to other “comps” in the development, while they shortchanged me a bathroom and bedroom that the identical floor plan has). 398 remains on the loan.
We tried to refi, but that appraisal killed it. I’m not sure how we could get a loan from another lender (the rate would be 100-125 bps better on the 15 and 30s).
Hi Keane,
I currently have my loan serviced by Green Tree servicing with a PMI. I’ve been trying to get approved for a HARP program but failed. My loan is by Fannie Mae. good credit and no late payments.
I live in NJ, maybe you can refer me to a bank that can help me get a better rate. my rate right now is 6.875%
Thanks in advance.
Rey
Hi Keane,
We have been trying to get approval for a refinance under the HARP Program. Chase sold our loan to Seterus. PMI payments made monthly through United Guaranty. Loan backed by Fannie Mae. LTV is 125%. We have no late payments and good credit. Seterus referred us to Quicken Loan who denied us due to LTV being too high. Have contacted all major banks in our area and been denied. Is there any bank accepting cases like ours under this program? We live in the state of Maryland.
Thanks for your much needed help.
RK,
What state are you in? If the loan is eligible for HARP, there’s a good chance you don’t need an appraisal.
Michael and Rey,
I emailed both of you a contact who can help you. Good luck!
We have been in the process of refinancing through HARP for six weeks now. Originally we were told that we did not need an appraisal, but now we are being told Fannie Mae is requiring two. What determines whether appraisals are needed?
Tom,
Are you going through your current company?
If you’re going through an outside Fannie Mae lender, it could be a number of things. They have to run the file through a Fannie Mae engine called Desktop Underwriter. If they didn’t have the income/assets/liabilities correct, the findings can change. Also, if the lender runs it through the system too many times, you can lose your appraisal waiver. It’s very important that the lender has the file underwritten properly so they don’t run it through too many times.
I’m not sure if this is what happened and each file is different, but these are common reasons why you can lose your appraisal waiver.
We are going through an outside Fannie Mae lender (our current company would not look at our file for two months, so we thought this would be faster.) When I asked about the need for two appraisals, this was the response I received from the lender:
“Underwriting has us run final findings on all files several times in some cases.. we had to re run once we got new payoffs/ asset / paystubs ect.. and now they are requiring us to have apparaisals done. This means paying for 2 appraisals. I am so sorry , this has been happening a lot on these HARP 2 deals.. not as smooth and easy as they made it out to be.”
Tom,
“Faster” is relative. It depends on the scenario and lender. Desktop Underwriter never asks for two appraisals. This is a lender overlay. Re-running the file with updated assets/paystubs is a sign of a poorly pre-underwritten file. Since Desktop Underwriter is sensitive to the amount of times you run the file, it’s important that all documents are in the file before it’s ran.
I specifically asked about that. Here is what I said and the lender’s response:
Me: “So are the appraisals being required because of your overlays? I guess I’m wondering if it’s Fannie Mae requiring the appraisal or Waterstone.”
Lender: “Nope not ours, Fannie.. we run Fannie findings and they are the ones asking I will send you copy to see.”
The lender then supplied me with the DU underwriting findings from Fannie Mae. The “Property Appraisal and Information” section stated that our property is not eligible for a DU Refi Plus Property fieldwork waiver and an appraisal is required (not sure why two are necessary though). I was satisfied with the lender’s response, but now I am wondering if they would have done things correctly in the first place, we may not have been required to have appraisals done. The only consolation is I am being offered two lender paid points as part of the refi.
Tom,
Fannie Mae is requiring the appraisal, which could be because they lost the waiver due to the reasons I mentioned. The request to have two appraisals is the overlay I was suggesting.
I’m not surprised they asked for two and don’t blame them for this. Fannie Mae makes lenders take potential responsibility for the loan, which is called a “Representation and Warranty” or “Reps and Warranties”. An outside Fannie Mae lender would not want an upside loan they don’t have any current attachment to unless the “Reps and Warranties” were limited.
The only Reps and Warranties an outside lender has to insure on a HARP loan is the value. Many outside lenders won’t do a HARP loan unless they get the waiver. This company is protecting themselves from this by asking for two.
However, the fact they lost your appraisal waiver is something to be addressed. Either the income/assets/payoffs were not run through properly and they never should have told you that you had a waiver or they ran it through too many times by adjusting these figures, resulting in a lost appraisal waiver.
Georgia; BofA says that we need another appraisal (we had one from another attempted refi w/ someone else).
We are proceding with 4.125 15-yr; wish that the rate was lower, but it is much, much lower than our current. No MI, either.
RK,
That sounds way too high for a 15-year loan. That’s more of what I would expect for a 20 or 30 year loan. With no MI, I would definitely shop this loan.
Do you want me to connect you with someone who’s licensed to do loans in GA?
The going rate is around 3.875 for a 15-year. We were quoted this from 2 lenders and we have PMI.
Tom,
I don’t give specific rate advice without knowing the whole scenario but you may find this article helpful in getting a better price.
http://www.keaneloans.com/2012/03/30/how-to-shop-for-a-home-loan/
At the end of the article, I discussed how to track mortgage bonds. The bond you should be tracking is the FNMA 15-year 2.5% coupon.
Hi Keane,
I currently have my loan serviced by Green Tree servicing with an LPMI. My loan is by Fannie Mae, good credit and no late payments in 5 years. MI payments made monthly through Triad Guaranty. LTV is 145%.
I have been turned down by two different lenders because of LPMI. I live in CA, could you help me or refer me to a lender / bank.
Thanks in advance.
Keane – even if Waterstone, the mortgage company I am working with, did submit a poorly undewritten file through Fannie Mae’s desktop underwriter, it doesn’t appear that would have changed my eligibility for the appraisal waiver:
According to Fannie Mae’s refinance FAQ: https://www.efanniemae.com/sf/mha/mharefi/pdf/refinancefaqs.pdf
Q109. (New) Does the number of submissions I make on a DU Refi Plus loan casefile impact the eligibility of the loan casefile for the DU Refi Plus property fieldwork waiver?
A. No. The number of times a DU Refi Plus loan casefile is submitted to DU has no impact on the loan casefiles eligibility for the DU Refi Plus property fieldwork waiver offer.
This makes it seem like Fannie Mae’s standards or the value of our home (which has decreased in value over the weeks since we initiated refinancing) are perhaps what resulted in our needing an appraisal. I am hoping that is the case, because refinancing through HARP has not been nearly as fast and easy as the government makes it out to be.
Tom,
That’s a very interesting point. I’ve personally experienced files losing property waivers but as you mentioned, it’s likely due to their internal value dropping.
A lender doesn’t need to re-run the file through DU unless something triggers the need. For the situations where a waiver is lost, it appears it’s not because it was ran too many times, it’s because they ran it later and the value dropped.
Keane,
I wonder if you might be able to help with my scenario. I’m in Chicago. We paid our PMI upfront (through Genworth) in 2008 when we purchased our home. Our loan is serviced by Chase, but I was told today we cannot refinance through HARP because we are not paying monthly MI. I also called a broker who said they couldn’t do HARP because of the mortgage issue (and referred me to Chase). Our loan is backed by Fannie, we have 800+ credit, should be otherwise eligible, but seem to be doomed to a 6.375% interest rate. Any suggestions for a way to access the HARP benefits would be much appreciated.
Sarah
Sarah,
You’re likely in luck. You just need to find a lender who can do single-paid LPMI HARP loans. Yes, Chase will not do them but many lenders will as long as Genworth is willing to transfer the PMI certificate. My experience is Genworth is fairly easy to work with but you need a lender who can do this for you.
I’ll connect you to someone via email.
Edwin,
That’s not an easy PMI company to work with but if Fannie Mae approves you on the DU refi plus program and Triad is willing to transfer the PMI, you can get this done.
I’m banging my head against a brick wall. I have $133,000 left on my mortgage. The property value has depreciated to $93,000. I can’t find anyone who will refinance. The mortgage is a fannie mortgage with Triad PMI. My credit rating is excellent (750 plus) and – I’ve never defaulted a payment. Recently Quicken contacted me (after telling me they couldn’t help be back in April after harp 2.0 came out) saying they could now help me. I go through the process and – they inform me they still can’t help because Triad is not participating with them on the Harp program. I’m so frustrated at this point. Anyone I call at any bank/lender is usually a customer service rep. When I explain the situation – they go through the whole process before they tell me they’re still only allowing 125% ltv or – stuff like Triad not participating etc. My credit score has likely dropped just from the credit score pulls from attempting to refinance. I’m hoping you can help me based on the above… I’m simply wanting to lower my payments/ interest rate and (I don’t know if it’s possible) drop the PMI without having to sell a kidney to do so. There has to be SOME lender somewhere that can help (though – i can’t find one). Any advice you can give would be GREATLY appreciated.
Bill,
I’ll address several of your concerns in separate answers.
First, Triad must be willing to transfer the PMI to the new lender. I’ve worked on a few Triad loans but only a few investors will take it. I’ll be writing more about some information I’ve received from some lenders who do these, but in the mean time, feel free to request a referral if you need someone who will work with Triad.
Second, Your LTV and credit rating sound fine. A good lender should be able to eliminate most of the hurdles before they get too far in the process but in today’s world, that’s not always the case.
Third, to address your inquiries, I wanted to give you some information from FICO regarding how inquiries impact your credit score…
Any loan inquiries in the first 30-days your credit is pulled is not considered in the score given to you. After the 30-days has passed, FICO groups all mortgage inquiries in the same 45-day window as one inquiry, knowing that the person is shopping with multiple lenders. This is directly from Fair Isaac and is a part of their FICO 8 scoring model currently used by all mortgage lenders. After the inquiries are 12 months old, they’ll stay on your report but are not considered in your credit score.
My loan was with BOA, then transferred to Green Treee Servicing. I have PMI with Radian Gauranty and want to do HARP 2.0. Tried for months with Green Tree but they don’t respond, voicemail is full and was on hold for 5+ hours. Never been late on any payments, my score is excellent. I just need to lower my rate. I owe 202,000 and value is around 185,000. Please help, I am in Illinois.
Dana,
Radian is one of the easiest PMI companies to work with. However, Greentree is not a lender and will only help people who request modifications. You’ll need to work with an outside lender. Your loan-to-value sounds very acceptable.
I’ll email you a contact.
Dear keane. I was recently going to get a refinance thru quicken loans unfortunately my boyfriends owes arrears even though he pays monthly. I was told by quicken loan in order to refinance we would have to pay that off 32,000. I wanted to know how can I take his name off the loan. I am the main person he is listed as 2nd. Tried to call Seterus only get automated system.
Marlena,
If your loan is with Seterus, they won’t be able to do a HARP loan. HARP also requires your loan to be on time.
If you call Seterus, it’s possible you can get a modification done. You have to make sure you’re talking to their modification department. That’s probably your best bet.
Our mortgage is serviced by Seterus with LPMI, and they referred us to Quicken Loans a few months ago. QL was unable to write the HARP II, as their software wasn’t ready for it. After failing with other lenders due to Genworth not willing to transfer the PMI certificate to a new lender, we just got a call back from QL telling us they are now up and running on HARP II. They got pre-approval from Genworth that the certificate will be fine because they will write the new loan then transfer it right back to Seterus. It looks like we may finally get this thing done.
Rob,
Yes, your loan doesn’t sound too tough based on today’s standards. Good luck with your closing!
I just closed on a Harp 2.0 loan on Friday and I’m saving over $450 a month (it only cost me $800 in closing costs). Details: condo with loan balance of 284k with bofa, appraised value 312, original loan had single premium lpmi with genworth, rate went from 6.625% to 4.00%!
Jeff,
That’s great news! Thank you for sharing your story. That’s a well priced loan.
I found this post when I thought there was no hope because I had a loan serviced by Seterus with PMI provided by TRIAD. Monday I signed my closing docs for a HARP 2.0 loan. I started in February and closed in June. Original loan was 30 Yr at 5.875% and new loan is 20 Yr at 3.875%. Thought I would post to provide others hope. It is possible to close a loan.
Jeremiah – I have the SAME situation – Seterus and Triad… I can’t find anyone who will refinance for me… who did you go through? Can you please let me know… I’ve been trying to get this taken care of since 1st week of April. Thanks!!
Bill,
The largest lender who’s doing these consistently is CMG Financial. You’ll probably have to find an approved broker in your area. Let me know the state you’re in and I can refer somebody.
FYI, the loan will take a long time.
I closed with AimLoan.com. When I first started working with them they declined my application because of the Triad insurance. However, I contacted Triad and they said they are willing to transfer the loan policy. After that I contacted AimLoan again and they eventually got back to me saying they would re-open my application and work with Triad to transfer the policy. I used their online application and waited for them to contact me to process the loan. Let them know up front you have Triad PMI.
Thanks Jeremiah… Keane – I’m in Florida… If you can refer me to someone here that can help that would be great (thank you both for the quick response)
Hi Jeremiah,
That’s great news. Did you have a monthly LPMI on your loan?
I have LPMI that’s being paid by my current lender every month and this has been a road block for me….
LPMI with RMIC paid every other month has now derailed four attempts to refi. Any suggestions for lenders willing to work with RMIC? The paid every other month is according to Nationstar. I am in CA. Beyond that sticking point, I have qualified for the refi in each case.
I have LPMI with UNITED GUARANTY INS CO paid monthy and haven’t had any luck finding any lenders willing to work with us. Our mortage is serviced by Greentree. Do you have any lenders in South Carolina are working with these?
Cynthia,
If RMIC will transfer the PMI and convert to monthly PMI, you can do this. I haven’t tried this personally but have had success with other companies other than Triad.
Brian,
United Guaranty will requalify your PMI before transferring but if they approve the PMI, you can do this loan and convert to monthly PMI.
Hello. I live in North Carolina and have had my mortgage serviced through Seterus for several years. I have lived in this house for almost 6 years, have never been late, never re-financed, have a solid employment/income history, and a strong credit score. I have “LPMI” sent from Seterus to United Guaranty (I pay Seterus one amount, and they allocate it for pre-paid taxes, PMI, and my P&I payment). When I inquired to Seterus about the feasibility of Harp 2.0, they encouraged me to call Quicken Loans. After looking over my financials and validating my home is “eligible” per the Fannie Mae guidelines, I assumed all was trending favorably… Days later, and up to this point (a few months later), I continue to hear ambiguous and cryptic feedback from Quicken that “my PMI is getting in the way” – despite UG making no claim on their website to not support Harp 2.0. This is a terribly broken process, and I’ve called a few banks only to be told I must have my original mortgage with them to qualify for HARP. My payoff and market value are actually pretty close, though my payoff is still a few thousand dollars above the market value I would think – especially in light of recent short sales. Any help is greatly appreciated. When I call United Guaranty, they have a 10 hour wait time to speak with an associate.
Nick,
Seterus is definitely not a lender, but you don’t have to use Quicken.
You’ll first need to find out what kind of LPMI you have. It could be paid monthly/annually or it may have been paid one-time at closing by your lender. You won’t know until you ask Seterus or United Guaranty.
If our PMI is paid monthly/annually, a new lender will need to convert the PMI to a monthly and you’ll have to pay it on your new loan. If it was paid one-time at closing, no additional cost will come to you.
United Guaranty does re-underwrite the PMI at the time you request a transfer, so there’s been instances where they will not approve the transfer. This is unfortunate but a reality. I’m not sure if that’s the trouble that Quicken is running into.
If you’re not sure what your options are or need better explanation, you can email me the state you’re in and I can refer you to someone.
Dear Keane,
I’ve owned an investment property in Arizona for four years, never late on a payment and for the last 1-1/2 year paying extra on principal each month. My credit score is 790. Green Tree is my servicing provider and I have a monthly mortgage insurance payment. I am estimating that the house is about 25% underwater relative to the loan balance. I want to refinance but Green Tree isn’t being responsive. Can you suggest the best next step?
I am trying to apply for a HARP loan–Present mortgage qualifies with the exception of LPMI- the lpmi was paid in full at the closing. Do you know any bank or institution that will help—great credit always on time. Thanks for any suggestios.
sorry house is in North Carolina but I will use anyone.
Ed,
You’ll have to work with an outside lender since Greentree isn’t a mortgage lender. You’ll need a good mortgage lender, plus the PMI company name (Greentree can give this to you) and confirmation your loan is backed by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac. As a rental property, you’re much better off with a Fannie Mae loan than Freddie Mac.
Let me know if you want me to refer someone to you.
Ken,
Yes, those are usually not too tough but it will also depend on the PMI company. I’ll send you a referral.
Fannie Mae Property in Georgia….bought in 2002 for 117k…original loan through RBC that sold out this year to PNC…pay off 101k…..probably worth 75-85K. Converted to rental property in 2008 when got married. interest rate 6.75 YIKES! Called PNC and inquired they said it’s a go we would qualify but have to go through DU because the original loan was done through RBC….and we will have to pay slightly higher late due to investment property…..I then asked about PMI….told you don’t have it….not sure that is so. I was told that maybe my husband had LPMI at the time of original loan. PNC said the only way to find out is through underwriting…is that so?? How can you find out who LPMI is through if you do not have original closing papers?
Also could you provide me some HARP 2.0 lender options in the Atlanta area that do LTV slightly over 125% on investment property with possible LPMI?
Thanks for the abundance of wealth and knowledge you share!
Mindy,
The lender already indicated the file has to go through DU, which is correct. DU will tell the lender immediately if there is any type of PMI, including LPMI. Have them look there.
Most lenders would be happy to do this loan for you as long as you get an appraisal waiver and approved/eligible findings. If they run it through DU and it doesn’t approve, try running the file as a shorter term loan like a 25-year loan. That helps DU approve many files it normally would not approve.
I’ll email you a contact you can discuss your options with.
Another question…found all closing paperwork. Nothing about LPMI , actual loan type states conventional uninsured. But 20% was not put down as a downpayment!! RBC original loan is out of business in US and sold out to PNC…..where can I find out who holds and if LPMI was bought by lender??? They tell me I have to apply for HARP 2.0 go through DU pay appraisal of 500 to find out if LPMI was bought and then be turned down…..I contacted Fannie Mae to no avail…..this is such a run around.
Any suggestions?
Keane, my mortgage insurance provider is Bankers Standard. It is a Freddie Mae loan. Could you suggest someone? Thanks.
Mindy,
The paperwork may not show there was LPMI. The usually don’t. You definitely do not need to pay for an appraisal to determine if your loan has PMI. You can run DU without an appraisal and more importantly, the DU findings may state you don’t need an appraisal. Any good lender should be able to run DU without an appraisal and determine your PMI company before making you pay upfront.
Ed,
What state are you in?
Keane, I have a 30 year-fixed (6.125%) with Bank of America that contains LPMI through United Guaranty. I understand BoA, Wells Fargo and Chase will not refi any loans under HARP that contain LPMI. I called Quicken last night and they expalined I met all the criteria for HARP (Fannie Mae, underwater, good credit, no late payments), but the fact that the LPMI was with United Guaranty was a show-stopper and to not even go forward trying to refi because United Guaranty would not allow it. The LPMI is paid by BoA monthly. Based on your scenarios, that appears to be the worst possible as far as lenders trying to work with a borrower. I spoke with someone at United Guaranty today and they said they would do the loan, but with Quicken telling me it’s a no go I am not sure what to do next. Do you know of any other lenders that would do the loan described above? I am in New Jersey. Thank you in advance, and thank you for the info on your site. Very helpful!
I have my mortgage through Wells Fargo in NY. I have PMI but I think they somehow converted it to LPMI, I’ve been told by Wells Fargo, Citibank and A Federal Credut Union that they basically cannot touch my loan and that I don’t qualify for Harp- they make no distinction between Harp and Harp 2.0. My loan is backed by Fannie Mae and they asure me I qualify. I’m frustrated and feel helpless. I need to refinance as we may not be able to keep paying soon. Any help? Any lenders you can recommend? Anything? Anyone? We’re desperate.
Hey Keane, thanks for your dedication to this, I’ve been following you for the past couple of years with the HARP program.
I am serviced by seterus w/ LPMI, not sure who the PMI company is yet, looking into that.
I’m located in St. Louis, Missouri. Are you aware of any lenders that would be helpful in my situation? Thanks for your feedback!
Paul,
Seterus will have to tell you who your PMI company is. That will be the biggest deciding factors in what your eligibility is and which lender you should talk to. It’s preferred that your loan is backed by Fannie Mae and your PMI company is still in business.
Carmen,
There are lenders who may work with you but you must first identify who your PMI company is. The company who services your loan should be able to let you know. Email me when you’ve found this data and I’d be happy to share a contact with you.
Bill,
United Guaranty isn’t the most difficult to work with. Triad is still the worst. United Guaranty makes clients requalify for the PMI, which not all clients will. The process takes a while since you have to submit for an approval to move the PMI through United Guaranty.
That said, they can do it. It’s not worth talking to a big bank unless they currently hold the loan, but your loan is with BOA. I would check with them, then check with outside lenders. I’ll email you a contact at BOA. If they can’t do it, let me know and I’ll pass along an outside lender. Good luck!
I’ve been following your posts and I am relieved to know that others are having the same issues that I am. I have Seterus and UGI. So far all of the lender’s I have spoken with stop all progress once they know we have PMI with UGI. What can I do? Can you refer a Florida Lender that will give me a chance? I have a Fannie Mae loan, high LTV (approx 140%). Most appreciated!
I’m with CitiMortgage and they still can’t help me, even though I’m Freddie Mac with no late payments and excellent credit rating. They always mention that the fact that I have a PMI and my mortgage originated with PHH may be a factor…but they say to call them every month because restrictions are being lifted what they say is arbitrarily…I’m about to call Wells, or Chase to see if I qualify with them. I have to get rid of my 6.875% rate!!
Hi Keane-
This is my first time on this forum. I pretty much have the same issue as most. My wife and I have LPMI and can not refi because of it. We have 800 credit and never missed a payment. I tried getting asst through
http://www.makinghomeaffordable.gov
but to no avail. HARP 2.0 really needs to be revamped to really work. I believe our loan is backed by Freddy Mac. I tried Quicken Loans and Chase our primary lender. I had one of the “counselors” from MHA program be on line with me while talking to Chase. The guy literally laughed and said no you have LPMI. After that I was so discouraged but I figured I try again. Is there anyway I can get some help in a refi?
I’m no expert but correct me if I’m wrong, the reason why banks won’t help families who have LPMI on their loans is because if they defualt they keep the house plus they get paid the full amount that the home was purchased at via the MI. Afterwards the MI company tracks the original owner for that amount hence no rush in helping families because either way they will get their money.
Sincerely,
Sergio
Just wanted to share our experience. We contacted several lenders at the end of March/early April and were turned down to refinance by most of them (unwilling to work with us because we had borrower-paid PMI with Triad Guaranty and 105%+ LTV). Fortunately we were able to find two that were willing to work with our situation. Long story short, we were able to shop our rate between the two of them and closed last night with Waterstone Mortgage on a 15-year fixed mortgage at 3.75% (from a 30-year at 6.5%) – with 2 lender paid points – resulting in no out of pocket closing costs for us. It was a very long process (took 3 months to reach closing), but finally paid off. Thanks, Keane, for maintaining a resource like this for people to find help with refinancing. It certainly helped us!
Rachel,
I emailed you a contact. Good luck!
Anthony,
Wells and Chase will only help you if your loan is serviced by them. Email me or comment here on the state you’re in and I’ll be happy to pass along a lender who can help you.
Sergio,
It’s a little more complicated than that. In addition, there’s different types of LPMI but luckily, options are getting easier.
If you have a LPMI Chase loan, they won’t refinance it. You should also try to find out the type of LPMI (annual, monthly or single-premium) and the company it’s with. You can email me the answers to those questions and the state you’re in if you want a lender contact.
Thomas,
That’s great! Triad isn’t easy to find a lender for. Also, they don’t have an option to convert monthly LPMI to a borrower paid monthly PMI but the news is they’ll have this available by the end of August. I’m writing a blog post about this announcement shortly.
I’m in Pennsylvania
My mortgage is backed by Fannie Mae and it’s currently with GreenTree and PMI with Triad. I’ve tried Wells, CitiBank, and Bank of America, the bank that sold my loan to GT. None of these banks will take my HARP loan because of PMI. All other factors are well in-line (LTV, Dbt to income). I’m currently working CMG Financial, but they seem to be running into problems too.
Any Suggestions?
Thank you
Richard
My Colorado mortgage is backed by Fannie Mae and it’s currently with GreenTree and PMI with Triad. I’ve tried Wells, CitiBank, and Bank of America, the bank that sold my loan to GT. None of these banks will take my HARP loan because of PMI. All other factors are well in-line (LTV, Dbt to income). I’m currently working CMG Financial, but they seem to be running into problems too.
Any Suggestions?
Thank you
Richard
Richard,
The last I heard, CMG is no longer accepting Triad PMI HARP loans. If your loan was registered already, they may still allow it.
Is it a PMI loan?
Well, that will make sense as to the hold up. Yes my loan is PMI. It’s my primary res.
Thoughts?
Thank you
Richard
Richard,
A mortgage company called 360 Mortgage is currently and has been servicing Triad insured PMI HARP loans. However, they only do Fannie Mae HARP loans (No Freddie Mac). If your loan is a Fannie Mae loan, I would find an approved 360 Mortgage lender in your area.
If you need a referral, let me know and I can get you in contact with somebody.
Thank you for taking the time to research. Yes, please. I’m in Lakewood, CO. And yes, I have a Fannie Mae mortgage. This was confirmed by the previous lenders and the Fannie Mae website.
Thank you again!!!
Richard
This is all great information. I have a loan where I am upside down by about 20%. I had a refinance all set, but then the company (New American Funding) said they couldn’t do it because my PMI was through Radian Guarantee. The original loan was with Countrywide, now with Bank of America. Any suggestions on who will write a refi with a PMI through Radian Guarantee? Thanks!
I’ve tried refinancing my loan through another bank but it was denied due to credit adjustment. They recommended I contact my current loan provider to find out what the problem was and they told me it was due to a funding fee I paid at closing. I was also told that I could only refinance my loan through them. Is the funding fee a type of PMI and is it really true that I can not refinance with any other bank?
Thanks!
I’ve tried refinancing my loan through another bank but it was denied due to credit adjustment. They recommended I contact my current loan provider to find out what the problem was and they told me it was due to a funding fee I paid at closing. I was also told that I could only refinance my loan through them. Is the funding fee a type of PMI and is it really true that I can not refinance with any other bank? I don’t see anything referencing mortage insurance on my loan documents and I meet all other requirements and have great credit.
Thanks!
Between a rock and a PMI place. My lender (Seterus) insist that there is nothing on record to indicate that I have PMI. I’ve pressed them on this 3x in the past two weeks.
I also can find no record of it in my monthly statements or loan documents from closing. My suspicion is that I do have it as I did not put down 20% at purchase and can’t image that I ever achieved it since I bought in 2007 and the value has dropped ever since.
My property (an owner occupied 4-family) is backed by Fannie Mae.
Wells Fargo just took an app to evaluate me and it got kicked out of the system as ineligible. They say that happened because I have LPMI, though they could not tell me any specifics of the LPMI.
Following your advice on here, I want to pursue it through lenders who will work with the LPMI situation, but I need to know who the PMI company is. How in the world do I find out who holds the PMI if my service doesn’t know?
Sara,
The term “Funding Fee” is more often used when talking about VA loans (for military veterans). is this the type of loan you did?
Paul,
I know Seterus hasn’t been helpful, but trust me, someone there knows. If you stopped making payments, they would be calling this company to get a claim for the losses. Someone there knows.
Once we identify who the company is, then I can help direct you to a lender who can maybe help. Let me know what Seterus says and the state you’re in.
I received a letter from my lender (seterus) indicating that I was approved through quicken loans for the ability to refinance. The original lender was Chase and now the collector is seterus. Our LVT is approximately 115%. I have been in contact with quicken loans over the past few and days trying to refinance and just received feedback from them that since seterus uses UGI (united guaranty) they can no longer move forward with the refinance. Any insight as why or what can be done? I reside in Pennsylvania. Good crdit and no late or missed payments.
Seth
Seth,
United Guaranty is doing HARP PMI transfers but they do re-underwrite the files. I’ve heard from several people that Quicken doesn’t work with UG on transfers, which means you just need a lender who will. Let me know if you want me to get you in contact with someone who can maybe help you.
Keane, it’s been several weeks since I wrote. To refresh your memory, I live in NJ but I am trying to refinance our second home (rental property) in Scottsdale AZ. My credit is excellent, never missed a payment and I have PMI on the mortgage. My service provider is Green Tree and the loan is owned by Fannie Mae.
After some initial progress, Green Tree told me that Fannie Mae would not release an appraisal waiver on the loan. Apparently it had something to do with the automated appraisal process. When pressed, the loan officer stated that they cannot get any info out of Fannie Mae about the appraisal; it’s simply a yes or no situation. I’ve research via internet other homes sold in my area and I am well within the 125% of loan value, but there doesn’t seem to be anyway of challenging them.
What opportunities do I have or next steps you could suggest? Should I seek other lenders? Any recommendations?
Ed,
Greentree is only a loan servicer, so they can’t do your refinance. You need to work with a Fannie Mae approved lender in AZ to do your refinance. The lender would need to see if you’re approved for an appraisal waiver through Fannie Mae’s desktop underwriter program. If you’re within 125%, this is a very do-able transaction. Since it’s a rental, all credit/income/asset compensating factors will improve your odds of getting approved. I can refer you someone if you like.
Keane, yes, Greentree was working through a lendor who said that Fannie Mae would not approve through the desktop underwriter program. No explanation was given nor could they ask why to Fannie Mae. I researched via the web and saw six homes sold within my general area and all were within the 125% of my loan value. I’ve got great credit and enough assets, really. It’s this crazy automated underwriter program that is seemingly unchallengeable. It’s like a maze-everything goes in and nothing comes out. I would appreciate a referral.
Keane – do you have a list of lenders who will work with UG?
Seth,
CMG Financial and 360 Mortgage both do. They’re wholesale lenders, so you’ll need to find an approved broker.
Ed,
There are dozens of reasons why desktop underwriter may not approve. Fannie Mae may have the address wrong in the system, it may not like the overall risk factor (which there are ways to fix this), etc.
It may be best to ask the lender for your DU findings and forward to me for review.
Keane, what are “DU” findings? Would I be able to get them from Greetree? There is no way I know to get any info directly from Fannie Mae.
Ed,
DU Findings are the printed report when the lender runs your file through Fannie Mae’s underwriting system you were talking about. When the system runs through the file, it generates a report which is called Desktop underwriter Findings or DU Findings.
I have a mortgage with Caldwell Banker. They rolled the interest into the PMI and because of that, even though I would otherwise qualify for Harp 2, I was told that I could not refinance under Harp 2 with Quicken Loans nor with Caldwell Banker. Please advise.
Liz,
Those loans are called LPMI loans.
The key to get a PMI HARP loan with LPMI is to learn who the PMI company is and determine if your loan is backed by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac. You can check to see if your loan is backed by Fannie or Freddie by following the instructions on this postt:
http://www.keaneloans.com/2009/12/18/homeowners-guide-to-harp/
Your current lender will know the PMI company, but they’re not always helpful at first.
I’m also running into problems finding a loan servicer. My loan is through Fannie Mae and serviced by Bank of America. Bank of America refuses to refinance our loan with extremely vague reasoning, I have requested an escalation to answer the question “why?”. I’ve also been turned down by Quicken and Wells Fargo saying, “we want to help but can not” because Bank of America is the only loan servicer we can go through because we have PMI. I have been to the know your rights website, called Fannie Mae directly, and googled for hours now, trying to answer the question, Is your current loan servicer the only company allowed to complete your HARP2 refinance if you have PMI as I’ve been told by a Quicken and Wells Fargo loan officers? Anyone know the answer?
Cathy,
BOA may or may not be giving you a straight answer, but if you email me your loan number, we can contact someone I know there to give more specifics including which PMI company insures your loan. That’s needed to determine your HARP eligibility.
Keane,
Thank You! My loan is backed by Fannie Mae, and I believe the PMI Company is PHH Corp. You are right…lender (Coldwell Banker) not very helpful. Should I call PHH? What can they do for me? By the way, I live in Florida.
Liz,
Fannie Mae is easier to work with than Freddie Mac. Yes, you can call PHH to find out more details on the type of PMI and transfer ability. You can email me if you would like a referral.
We actually close on our BofA mortgage tomorrow that had PMI through HARP 2.0. It’s been a long time coming.
Keane,
We are also trying to do the HARP 2 and have made two unsuccessful attempts with lenders that won’t use Triad Gauranty Insurance. Our current loan servicer is Green Tree Servicing with Triad as the PMI and it’s a Fannie Mae. We have never been late on payments and have a good credit rating, we are currently at 6.75% and LTV is just under 125%. Our credit union and Quicken have Triad on their exclusion list, but they say that we can probably find a lender out there willing to work with Triad. Do you have any suggestions for us? Should we contact Everbank? We are in Idaho.
Thanks for your consideration.
Wendy,
I have potentially good news for you.
360 Mortgage is a wholesale lender who, through approved brokers, is working with Triad. To be able to fund a Triad LPMI loan, you may need to wait until Monday (Aug. 20th). They’re allowing LPMI-paid monthly loans to be converted to borrower-paid monthly starting this day, which is likely something you’ll need.
360 Mortgage is the only company I know that works with Triad. CMG used to work with them but they do not work with them any longer.
Hi Keane,
Thanks for all of the great information. Like most of the posters here, we qualify for HARP 2, but haven’t been able to get a refi. We have a singe paid LPMI premium through Radian that was paid up front by Bank of America – sounds like option 2. Are there any banks in NC that will work with us? It appears to be financially beneficial to refinance even if I need to convert to BPMI monthly. Do I need to contact Radian to make that request or does the bank handle that? Thanks!
Joshua,
If it was paid one time at closing, you shouldn’t have to change to monthly BPMI. Your new lender should handle the transfer and Radian is one of the easier companies to work with.
Is your loan backed by Fannie or Freddie? Let me know and I’ll pass along someone who can help.
I have been trying to do more research around HARP and HARP 2.0. Can someone please tell me if BOA has started the HARP 2 program? It is my understanding that HARP 2.0 allows us to use other vendors than our current lender – is that accurate? When I called Chase back in July they said they said HARP 2.0 had not yet been implemented. I know I am eligible for the HARP program but am wondering what the vantage point of going with HARP 2.0 would be.
Can someone help?
Carri,
HARP 2.0 is a replacement of the old HARP program and BOA has adopted the changes. They put overlaying rules, so you may need to check with outside lenders.
There’s a version made for the company you make your payments to and another for outside lenders. The pricing may be different and the guidelines are definitely different.
Everybody, including Chase, has adopted their version of HARP 2.0 at this point. They may be delaying the roll out of some of the newer features but nobody is using the old program. The old program has been replaced. If the lender isn’t doing the program to it’s full limits, that’s an overlaying guideline, not a program rollout problem.
Keane – I currently have Wells FARgo and paid my PMI up front when I last refinanced. WElls fargo said they can’t refinance me through HARP because I paid up front PMI nad they have system limitations in doing it. I am having issues finding a bank that will allow me to transfer the PMI and refinance through them. Do you know of any?
Keane – I currently have Wells FARgo and paid my PMI up front when I last refinanced. WElls fargo said they can’t refinance me through HARP because I paid up front PMI nad they have system limitations in doing it. I am having issues finding a bank that will allow me to transfer the PMI and refinance through them. Do you know of any?
Greg,
It will depend on the type of lender-paid PMI and the company it’s through. Do you know? If not, I would ask Wells.
If you let me know what state you’re in, I can help you find a lender. Also, I have a contact at Wells that can help us determine who the PMI company is too.
Keane,
I am really getting the run around with PHH(PMI Company),in finding someone to give me details on the type of PMI and transfer ability. Just spoke to someone who gave another name & extension to call, along with a Investor Loan # and told me I have landscape PMI??? Do you know what that is? Any tips on how to get thru to the right person? I work full time and this seems to be a full time job. Thanks again for all your help!
I have found this page very useful. If you had additional leads for lenders willing to work with Fannie loan at 123% and TGIC/Triad LPMI paid monthly that would be great. We are located in Maryland if that helps.
I’m calling our credit union today but would love other leads since Quicken was not able to help us and other posts make me feel that the credit union might not either. Quicken’s rate several weeks ago (4.25%) felt a little high for someone with excellent credit and no late payments — being able to shop a little would be nice.
Is there any special magic in getting lender paid points that I’ve heard some people mention or not needing to bring a lot of cash to closing? We assumed it’d be a couple thousand to close but would love to know about more affordable options where possible. Thank you!
Liz,
I’ve never heard of that company but you never know.
You could take a different route and contact all the major PMI companies to see if they have your policy. MGIC, Radian, RMIC, PMI Co., United Guaranty and Genworth were the largest ones.
Zan,
Is it a Fannie Mae loan? A lender who’s an approved broker with 360 Mortgage can do it.
Thanks, it is Fannie Mae. I will look into 360 Mortgage since the credit union called back saying no one can do the Harp2 program when LPMI is involved.
Zan,
That’s incorrect. Yes, but keep in mind you will need to find an approved broker, not apply with 360 Mortgage directly.
Keane – I am in Utah and I have contacted multiple lenders to see if they are able to do the HARP loan for an LPMI loan – do you have any suggestions for a lender in Utah?
Thanks for the info in you article!
Josh,
There are factors that are needed to help with a referral. Do you know if it’s a Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac loan? Do you know who the PMI company is? What company services your loan (who you make your payments to)?
Hello Keane,
I have the same situation as Liz. I wanted to refinance with HARP 2.0 but cannot through my current mortgage company/servicer because I was above the 125% threshold. My mortgage servicer is PHH mortgage I have a conventional loan with LPMI. My loan docs reference a Low Down Payment Adjustment feature that states that .75% of my rate is for the low down payment adjustment (I’m assuming this for the LPMI). I called PHH to find out who the PMI company was and they told me it was PHH. I asked how this is possible since they are not a PMI company. Long story short, I couldn’t get a straight and logic answer from customer service, so I called the office of the president number from their website. They told me that the .75% I’m paying every month as part of my interest payment is going to Fannie Mae and that they are paying the PMI. I’m still not clear on who the PMI company is. Should I call Fannie Mae to find that out? Also, I tried to refinance with Quicken Loans in April 2012 but wasn’t able to. The only reason I was given was “Product/Program not available” in an email. My LTV is 95.8%,I’m in NJ, my loan is a Fannie Mae and my credit score is in the high 700s (772 in Apr 2012 and nothing has changed credit wise for me). Any advice you can provide would be great.
Hello Keane…and Trina,
Someone finally returned my call from PHH/Coldwell Banker. She told me I have Landscape PMI or Insurance(not held by a national insurance Co. like Genworth), but paid by PHH directly to investor…Fannie Mae on a monthly basis. I also asked if my PMI was transferable and she said no. Let me know what you make of this. Thanks again for your help.
I can’t do HARP because I have LPMI. This is crazy – they updated the program and I still can’t do it because of Lender paid PMI. Is there anyone else in my situation, and have you been able to get around this in any way???
Hi Keane,
I’m in the process of trying to refi my loan through a mortgage broker since BoA was unwilling to work with me on a refi due to lpmi, which was paid up-front. The problem I’m running into is that when the mortgage broker called Radian Guaranty to see about getting my pmi transferred, Radian is telling them no. Have you encountered anything like this before? The mortgage broker I’m working with recommended me calling Radian and complaining as originally they said they would be willing to transfer the pmi. Not sure what to do at this point.
Thanks!
Hi Liz,
Someone from the office of the president called me back today too and basically told me the same thing. I have the same type of loan (Landscape Loan which is PHHs internal name for a LPMI loan) except PHH was the originator instead of Coldwell Banker. She said she spoke with a Fannie Mae person specialist at PHH and they confirmed that the .75% of my interest rate is going to the investor every month for the pmi. When I asked who the PMI co was, they said that Fannie Mae is guaranteeing the loan and that there is no PMI co. That didn’t sound right to me so I called Fannie Mae and they told me all they could do was confirm I had a Fannie Mae loan and that any questions about PMI would have to be directed to the servicer (PHH). I was also told that if I refinance, the pmi would be transferred….not sure if I believe that. Like you, I don’t know what to believe. I just wanted to get the name of the PMI co (to have that info at hand and find out whether or not it was transferrable before I tried to refiance again) but that’s proving to be damned near impossible. Thanks for sharing your feedback and good luck in your refinance efforts.
@ Joey – there are lots of us in the same situation Joey. HARP 2.0 DOES allow for LPMI to be refi’d. It does. Just that a lot of lenders won’t touch the LPMI situation and when you talk to individuals that work there, all they know are their own in-house rules. The best thing you can do is read Keane’s blog entries on here about HARP (there are a few) and read through all the user comments. Keane gives a lot of feedback and advice; it’s an education.
You still have hope, even with LPMI, you just have to find the right lender who is willing and knows what they are doing.
@ Trina, I feel your pain. I’m getting the same runaround. My servicer says I don’t even have LPMI, but I know that is totally not true. Since they believe that (or are withholding info), I can’t find out who the PMI insurance company is. One person says up, the next person says down. It’s one obstacle after another. I’m just going to keep calling people until I find the smart ones. Be persistent!
Trina,
I doubt PHH is your PMI company for all the reasons you mentioned.
The good news is at 95% LTV, you may be able to do a regular/conventional refinance. That said, if you did find out who the PMI company was, that wouldn’t be needed.
If you started missing payments today, the true PMI company would appear because the bank would be calling them for a claim. Someone there knows. They’re probably in the servicing department.
Joey,
THe key is to first learn if your loan is backed by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, then try to find out who your PMI company. If you read Liz and Trina’s story, you’ll see this isn’t always easy. With the right lender and the right information, you can potentially get this done.
Jason,
I’ve heard of this with United Guaranty but not Radian. They usually always transfer the PMI. United Guaranty re-qualifies the client, which if they’re denied, they won’t transfer the PMI.
Paul,
Thanks for the feedback. Yes, HARP has a different answer for every person it seems like. LPMI loans aren’t impossible anymore but they are harder.
Keane,
The LTV didn’t sound right to me. I got it from customer service a few days ago. It sounds like they’re using the appraisal # (225,000)from when we purchased the house back in 2007. I called back customer service today and they gave me the same number and I told them it was wrong and asked how they calculated the LTV. Customer service couldn’t tell me and said they would send a request to have a letter sent (within 7-10 business days) to me showing the calculation.
Also, I tried to refinance under HARP with them in May 2012 and they told me that my house was valued at 161,000 while I owe 212,000. That would make the LTV more like 132%. They’re not doing HARP Loans with the unlimited LTV there yet and don’t know when they will be so trying to refinance with them right now is not an option. Do you have an referral for anyone that can help me or am I just out of luck? I’m in NJ.
Trina,
I’ll refer you to someone. Between your new lender and your efforts, hopefully you can find out the truth about your PMI.
WE have been in Harp 2 process for 4 1/2 months with Chase – servicer of our loan. Told we qualified. We wanted monthly reduced – from 6.125 to 4.25. Wonder if it can close. We have received papers – counter offers – every two weeks or so. Our value is 135% and wonder if loan can close. We had an appraisal in May. Now they want another – say appraisal valid only for 4 months. They did not get tax records in timely manner in June. Raised loan .5 point at end of July because loan ap time too long. said it should close in two weeks, but did not. Appraisal not adequate in July so delayed. August would close, but needed to evaluate. First of September, loan agent said would close on 15th. On the tenth called to say second appraisal needed to close. Will it ever close?
Vern,
It sounds like just poor handling by the lender. Are they making you pay for the appraisals? I can’t see how that’s logical or ethical if it’s their processing that’s causing the delays.
Keane,
I have a Fannie loan through Seterus. I have PMI with a company called Triad Guarentee. I have been unsuccessful finding a lender in Michigan that will work with my situation. I am current on my loan and have never had a late payment. My credit score is excellent, yet I can not seem to refinance my loan. Any suggestions?? I have most recently worked with Quicken Loans, who initally thought they could refinance, but then told me that Triad was not a PMI company that they work with.
Sara,
The only lenders I know who are working with Triad is 360 Mortgage and CMG Mortgage. Both are wholesale lenders, so you need to find a broker who can close loans with these two lenders. In addition, CMG is temporarily not taking new loans to catch up.
Email me if you want me to refer a lender to you.
Keane,
Over the past several weeks we tried to apply for HARP through several brokers and Quicken (Seterus is our servicer) only to be told “LTV is above 125% (due to their overlays) and/or we don’t know of or work with any lenders who are doing above 125% any longer”. We have never been late on our mortgage, have good credit, LTV (196k / 132k), interest rate is 7.125% and we pay PMI.
Fast forward to today and we just found out my husband’s company is closing/relocating. We don’t know his layoff date as of yet but it will be in 1-2 years so refinancing may not be feasible because we don’t intend to stay in Oregon as we relocated here because of his job. We would either:
1) Attempt a short sale and return to CA, date TBD; or
2) Apply for HARP in a year or so and relocate to NY for his job and try to rent or sell.
However, after reading all the hassles people are going through just to get to the point of denial I’m beginning to wonder what your thoughts are on recasting our loan instead to help bring down our monthly payment in the interim? We have some money to apply to principle but hadn’t heard much about recasting loans and wondered if you can shed any light on the subject.
Nicole,
Recasts are rare because there usually isn’t a change to the rate. Since rates are lower, most people would rather re-amortize their loan while lowering their rate.
You consider doing a HARP loan while you’re eligible now. If you think you may move, you can always take a higher rate to keep the fees lower.
Thanks Keane – the issue is that all the brokers I have spoken with haven’t seen HARP loans made in Oregon for over 125% LTV. And that lenders are pulling back and adding additional overlays, etc. Also in regards to Quicken they estimated our appraisal value and can you shed any further light as to how they are coming up with the value? Can it be challenged? Quicken actually came back and said, “come to the table with about 40k and then it will be approved”.
Nicole,
Is your loan backed by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac? 360 Mortgage doesn’t have overlays but they only do Fannie Mae loans.
Keane – my loan is Fannie Mae. Do you know of a licensed broker in Oregon that I can contact that works with 360 Mortgage or can I contact them directly?
Nicole,
I do. Email me and I’ll pass along their info.
RE: Freddie -HARP
“If you have LPMI and your lender paid the premium upfront (option 2), I would highly recommend seeking a lender who will do your HARP loan without converting your PMI to a monthly premium.”
Hi, Is there a specific lender you recommend? Wells Fargo was not my original lender and the won’t refi me.
Keane,
To add on, My cert is from MGIC. I’m in MA.
Thanks for sharing.
Pete,
MGIC is pretty easy to work with. If your LPMI is paid monthly, you’ll need to convert to monthly paid PMI. However, if it was paid as a single premium, MGIC should transfer the PMI to the new lender. I’ll email you a contact.
Keane, We have a lender paid (single payment) cert. When was the last time you spoke to the contact? His number is disconnected.
Pete,
That’s odd. I’ll look into this for you.
My loan is serviced by Green Tree and it sounds like they have now partnered with Quicken Loans to do HARP refi. I just started the process today, but it looks promising. With the new partnership, Quicken is for all intensive purposes acting as the servicer. For people like me who had a foreclose in the past 3 years (and have LPMI), this may just get past some of the barriers that I have faced so far trying to use the HARP program We’ll see how it goes…
Chad,
I’m interested to hear how it goes. From the Fannie/Freddie guidelines, this should be no different than applying with a different lender. I know Green Tree refers to Quicken but I’ve never seen Quicken honor the true Refi Plus/Same-Servicer guidelines that only the servicer can offer.
We have a Fannie loan which is serviced by Bank of America (originally serviced through Countrywide). We have a monthly LPMI through Radian. Our current LTV is 110%. We live in Colorado and have good/great credit with no missed payments. We have tried a HARP refinance through one company that said Radian would not work with them. They suggested that only BoA would work with us because of the Radian LPMI. We really do not want to go through BoA again. Do you know of any companies that might be able to help us? We are also less than a year away from being at 80% LTV of the original loan appraisal. Would you suggest waiting until we can get the LPMI off our loan before refinancing?
Susan,
The last I checked, BOA is not doing any LPMI loans.
Radian does work with other lenders. I’ll email you.
Hi Keane – I am following up with my earlier post regarding my HARP refi with Green Tree\Quicken Loans. At this time my loan has been approved and I will be closing on Oct 9th. As a result, my loan will initially be serviced by Quicken and then servicing rights will be turned back over to Green Tree within 1-2 months. The previous LPMI was converted to a seperate monthly PMI payment. Best of all my interest rate got knocked down from 7.35% to 3.99%. For those with loans being services by Green Tree and same servicer guidelines are your only option (foreclose in my case), it is now possible to get this done.
Chad,
Good to hear. I can’t tell from your scenario if they’re doing the Refi Plus or DU Refi Plus. The Refi Plus is supposed to be exclusive to the servicer. I know Green Tree refers to Quicken. FYI, you can do PMI and LPMI loans with other lenders too on the DU Refi Plus program, but the guidelines are different.
Did they pull your credit? That’s probably the biggest indicator as to which program they’re doing. A true Refi Plus program doesn’t require a credit report.
They did pull my credit, but all income, assets and liabilities were stated. I want to say it was a true Refi Plus, since they were able to work around the foreclosure that had not aged appropriately to be accepted through DU Refi Plus. At least that was the case when I previously tried to go through other lenders (Wells Fargo, Aim Loans).
Hi Keane,
I have the same situation as Trina. Conventional loan with LPMI, Coldwell Banker/PHH Mortgage, backed by Fannie Mae. PHH tells me they pay directly to investor on monthly basis. Still not sure who the PMI Co. is! Received a letter from Coldwell stating my LTV is 88.5%. That is not possible…..more like 133%. Anyway, would you happen to have a referral for me? My credit score is in the mid 700s, no late payments. Not sure what else to do.
Frustrated in Florida.
Liz,
You’ll need to know your PMI company to move forward, but your loan sounds reasonable so far.
I was just turned down for Harp 2.0 because my loand has PMI (Not LPMI) by a company that tried 8 different lenders. My current LTV is 92% I was rolling all closing costs in because cash is tight. Great credit(between 740 and 780 for all 3). Great income to debt ratio. Everything was reportedly great. But then as soon as they realized my current loan had PMI, I was immediately disqualified. What gives? They couldn’t really give me an answer, just that it’s their policy.
Tony,
Wrong company to be working with.
Is this the home you live in? You don’t need to do a HARP loan if you’re under 95% loan-to-value and it’s an owner-occupied home.
Hi Keane,
Been waiting for IndyMac/OneWest to do HARP 2.0 – still will not do w/PMI. Have “No Mortgage Insurance Program”. Got another lender in Boise ID for a Fannie loan investment property?
Bruce,
I do know of some options. Do you know who your PMI company is and the type of PMI? This makes a big difference.
I have Greentree and they are not helpful at all with providing me with any information regarding the HARP program. I hate Greentree. They have poor customer service and they are really rude. Greentree needs to go out of business. I want so badly for another mortagae company to have and not Greentree. Greentree is beyond bad. Run for your lives.
OneWest seems to be unable to locate the IndyMac info about PMI. Closing docs indicate “No Mortgage Insurance Program” but no line items showing any funds paid or to whom. Any other way to find this info? Difficult to proceed without?
Hi Keane,
I took your advise (8/31/12) and called all the major PMI companies to see if they have my policy. They all said no, except United Guaranty, who could not release any info. over the phone. They said “Lender can find that info when they pull up DU findings.” I also asked my contact at Coldwell Banker/PHH to email me clarification on PMI Co.(or lack of). She sent the following “There is no Private Mortgage Insurance Co. on the type of mortgage insurance you have with PHH. The investor is Fannie Mae and they get paid the premium that you are being charged.” Is that possible? Any suggestions on how to proceed?
Thanks.
Liz,
Fannie Mae DU findings do not indicate who the PMI company is. It will indicate if there is PMI. The explanation you were given makes no sense. It sounds like they are indicating you have LPMI but it’s hard to tell for sure from what they’re telling you.
I know that if you defaulted on your loan, they would find out who the PMI company is in a heartbeat. I’m not recommending you do that, but someone there knows.
Bruce,
Your scenario sounds like Liz’s. Someone there knows but you need to dig to get the answer.
Stella,
Greentree isn’t a lender. They’re a loan servicer. Read this post. It’s specifically for clients in your situation:
http://www.keaneloans.com/2012/10/11/how-do-i-get-a-harp-loan-when-my-servicer-isnt-a-lender/
I currently have PMI and qualify for a HARP loan; however, I would like to eliminate my PMI in addition to getting a lower rate. A direct lender is offering a refinance option, through HARP, so that I can pay the amount necessary to get to 80% of our home’s value based on the HARP “automated valuation model” (no appraisal). Is this allowed through the HARP program?
Shad,
It’s not. However, if you’re confident the home will appraise for a similar amount, you can do a traditional refinance with an appraisal, which would show ample equity to refinance.
If for some reason it must be a HARP loan, you can order an appraisal, get the PMI removed outside the refinance, then close on a HARP loan.
I want to thank you for all your help in finding me a source to refi my loan under the HARP program. We closed last month with CMG and my family is aving over $350 a month. Thank you again for doing what you’re doing. And God bless!
Richard
Hi Keane,
Onewest/Indymac. PMI Group gets monthly payment. Do you have a resource for Idaho/HARP refi?
Thanks.
Keane,
Coldwell Banker/PHH sent me a copy of “Low Down Payment Fee Mortgage Addendum To Note.” It states “Borrower hereby agrees to pay Low Down Payment Fees {“LDPF”} totalling $202.00 each month of which $202.00 is in lieu of paying premiums for private mortgage insurance,” etc. etc. It goes on. This was signed, although I did not have a copy. What do you think? Sounds like I might be out of luck.
Liz
Liz,
Even if this is the case, will they transfer the pmi?
Keane
I called Citi (my current servicer) to see if they would refinance my mortgage under HARP 2. I have a FreddiMac ARM with PMI (I pay premiums) and the current LTV is ~130%. After roughly 90 minutes on the phone I was done with an application. That’s the good news (although I haven’t gotten papers for signature yet).
Terms I got are a little worse than I expected (30 years at 4%, no points, I was hoping for 3.75%, expecting 3.875%) but since my primary motivation was getting into a fixed rate mortgage, I’m not going to complain.
But there are few things that surprized me:
1) They required an appraisal, $470 paid upfront (upon signing papers), nonrefundable; I thought there were no appraisals under HARP.
2) Closing costs totaled at $6,100 (in addition to $2,370 in Pre-paid Interest/escrow, and appraisal fee for Total Estimated Settlement of $8,940); I thought closing costs under HARP were supposed to be “lower”,
3) the PMI will be based off my newly appraised home value, that is, I’ll be paying PMI premiums until principal drops below 80% of the current home value (which is I estimate to be roughly 55% of purchase price, since the house lost 30%); I though PMI under “old” schedule.
There were some issues I found the agent to err: at first he told me I would be able to include all of the settlement in my loan, and he presented me with savings as if there were no more PMI. I cought on PMI first – I knew I should not get much change from going to 4%, difference was close to what I pay in PMI, after some drilling, he acknowledged he had forgotten about PMI. When I further expressed my joy from being able to roll all my closing costs into the loan and asked to double check, he realized that I could not go above $5,000 (way lower than 4% of the loan value).
Keane, can you comment on the three points above? Was he correct on those? (I’m asking since he had history of not being correct). Also, do you think there is a viable chance for getting a better deal with other servicer if I shop around (I’ll have 10 days to decide once the papers come). Or should I be happy I got this?
Thanks
Pete
What great information you have posted here. I refinanced with Countrywide in 2007 (30 yr fixed at 7.8%). The loan is a Fannie Mae loan and I now pay Bank of America. I have a 115% LTV and an appraisal supporting this done in September of this year. I am current on payments (always) and have no hardship situation. B of A says no to HARP refi due to Lender Paid PMI. I found out that the LPMI (which B of A called Tax Advantage Mortgage Insurance (TAMI)) is paid monthly by B of A to Triad Guaranty Insurance Group. Is there any chance I can find a HARP refi? I am looking into American Lending Solutions at the moment and they seem to think they understand this situation and can get me into a HARP refi. Any help or direction would be greatly appreciated!
Keane,
I have been emailing the person at PHH who works in the PMI/MIP department and her position is overseeing the set up and removal of Conventional and FHA loans. Her response is “PHH will not transfer the low down payment fee.” Do you think I should be talking to someone else, or is it time to just move on? Do not want to stop making payments..credit is good. Thanks.
Pete,
It’s less often that you’ll hear an appraisal is needed by the servicer but it is possible and does happen. There’s an automated value that’s given and Freddie Mac gives the lender a score on how strong they believe the value to be. If it’s too low, they may still require an appraisal.
If your costs and prepaids are that high, be prepared to bring money to closing since Freddie Mac has a $5k limit on how much they can increase the loan amount. I don’t know all the details, but $6100 for a no-point loan sounds very high.
HARP loans don’t necessarily cost less than regular loans. They are regular mortgages where rate and fees are on a sliding scale. If you get an appraisal waiver, you obviously save those costs. They put pricing caps in place so you don’t pay too much for high-loan-to-value loans but the normal title/escrow/recording fees typically associated with a refinance.
You can, however, shop your loan. Outside lenders can see if you’re eligible for the Freddie Mac HARP loan that is for lenders other than the servicer. If approved, you can choose from a number of lenders and pick your lender based on pricing and expertise.
You will need to renew your PMI. The rules for cancelling PMI will require you to pay until you’ve reached 78% of the value or if you can prove you have 80% LTV with an appraisal.
If you want a referral, feel free to email me and perhaps I can send you to someone else to check eligibility and pricing.
Steve,
Your biggest hurdle is the LPMI paid to Triad, but you can get this done. A few lenders work with Triad.
A wholesale lender named 360 Mortgage is one of the easiest Fannie Mae HARP lenders I’ve worked with. You’ll need to find an approved broker in your state, but they’re a good option. You can email me your info and the state you’re in and I’ll refer you to someone.
Liz,
Your situation is very unique and this isn’t a company I’ve typically worked with. If they truly won’t transfer, you may be out of options.
Most PMI companies over the past few months have made the changes needed to assist clients who are applying for a HARP loan. Even Triad, a small company now out of business, is working with their clients. I’m not sure how long you can wait but I’m sure they’ll come around, as all other companies I’ve seen have made the necessary changes.
Thanks Keane,
I was swamped for a couple weeks and couldn’t put much time into researching option. After reading your answer and some other posts I did not see much upside in trying to get an outside offer so I signed Citi papers. Absent refinancing my ARM for the next 12 months would be 0.50% lower than my fixed rate, I figured this is a reasonable proce to pay for piece of mind. It’s possibe that I would be able to squeeze a little by searching around or timing the application better but the work couldn’t wait. Time will tell if this was the right choice.
Thanks for your time and opinion
Pete
Don’t give up folks!!! I have been trying to refi for about a year and I finally closed last week. I had LMPI through Triad.
Keane, Thank you for your time and the referral…your da man.
Keane,
I have a condo (investment) in Tampa. The loan is Fannie, I meet all the requirements for HARP, great credit. My LTV is about 175%.
I have a TAMI (which I believe is LPMI) through Countrywide originally now going through Greentree. Triad is the PMI company. Greentree pushed me to Quicken for refinance, however they are telling me that Triad is not working with them.
I know you have helped many people on this thread and greatly appreciate it. Do you have any advice for me?
Thank you
Dave
Pete,
If you’re fine with the pricing, go for it. It’s so hard to put a price tag on time and effort.
Dave,
Triad has been working on LPMI loans since last August. It’s Quicken’s choice if they want to work with them or not.
Email me if you want me to refer you to someone who can help you.
Keane, I am located in TN, but I have a mortgage for a rental property located in WI. It has a LTV of 122%. My mortgage is with Bank of America. Although I am qualified Bank of America or Quicken Loans won’t refinance me under the Harp Program because of the PMI with Essent/Triad. They told me these organizations have to have an agreement with Sallie Mae and Freddie Mac and that they couldn’t do anything about it. Do you know otherwise? Is there a company I can work with? Thanks for this blog.
Stephanie,
I’ll refer you to someone who may be able to help.
I JUST REFI’ED MY LOAN WITH GREENTREE WITH EVERBANK LOCATED IN JACKSONVILLE FL. GREENTREE WAS THE WORST COMPANY I HAVE EVER DEALT WITH, THEY ARE RUDE AND UNPROFESSIONAL. I HAD TRIAD AS MY PMI COMPANY AND GREENTREE NEVER TOLD ME WHY I COULDN’T REFI WITH THEM, IT TOOK THEIR PARTNERSHIP WITH QUICKEN LOANS TO TELL ME. NEVER THE LESS I REFI’ED WITH EVERBANK AND IT WAS THE BEST EXPERIENCE I EVER HAD ON MY REQUEST TO REFI UNDER THE HARP 2.0. MY NEW RATE IS 3.875 FROM 7%. I HOPE THIS HELPS SOMEONE ELSE THIS SITE HELPED ME, I CLOSED AND IT ONLY TOOK 32 DAYS TO DO SO!!!
Denise,
Greentree is just a loan servicer, so most people who call on HARP get bad or irrelevant advice. They don’t originate loans.
I’m glad you got your loan done! We’re hearing more stories of success than failure these days.
Thank you for your referral to John Bates of EFCU. Finally closed this week and my rate went from 6.875% to 3.99%. He was so helpful and was EXTREMELY accommodating. THANK YOU SO MUCH
Just wanted to give an update. I was finally able refinance through HARP 2.0. We closed on December 21. Intrest rate went from 8.793 to 4.125. We’re saving over $700 a month. I want to thank Keane and all the commenters on this site for sharing their experiences and knowledge. It was most helpful to me as I was trying to understand my current mortgage and my refinance options.
Also, I co-sign what Anthony said regarding John Bates at EFCU. I worked with John (Thanks for the referral Keane!) as well on my refi and he was great.
Keane, I’ve posted before. Thank you for sharing all your knowledge and this great site. I know more details about HARP than most of the lenders I speak with as a result. I’m in St. Louis, Missouri.
I’ve tried and tried to refi and can’t get it through so far. I have an owner occupied 4-plex I bought in early 2007 and have full occupancy. LTV is about 125%. 8.675% is my current rate, I could save tons on a refi! Credit is outstanding, never missed a payment or late on anything. I am with Fannie Mae and HARP eligible. Sadly, Seterus is my servicer and are of no help since they don’t originate loans. Seterus time and again had told me that there is no LPMI on my mortgage, but it has to be in there somewhere as I’ve never been near 20% equity and at least 3 other lenders who looked at a refi with me told me that it has to be there and in some cases that’s why they won’t work with me.
DU Refi + rejects me and I’m trying to understand why. From everything I’ve learned, I’m a great candidate for it. One guy told me it was because the system thinks that I’m not backed by Fannie Mae (though we know I am and before the cutoff date). He said he’s seen this before and could fix it. He did not and bailed on me, finally writing me a non-sensical email that told me little. In that email he did mention something about a Credit Enhancement (C.E.). I don’t know what that is except I’ve seen in mentioned on here and I saw on Fannie Mae’s site that last Fall there were some adjustments to the program to account for some C.E. issues.
A lot of details to ask you this:
- Do you know if there is a way for me to find out why DU refi+ is rejecting me?
- Do you have any suggestions for my situation?
Currently talking with NationStar Mortgage to see what they can do.
I really appreciate your feedback!
Thanks Keane!
Paul,
There’s a good chance that the problem is the address. If the address is saved in Fannie Mae’s database incorrectly, this would prevent you from refinancing. It’s also common for the address to be incorrect when the property is a multi-family.
Did the address work on the Fannie Mae loan lookup verification?
Thanks Keane. Yeah I have an address that is two different numbers, like 2216-2218. On my mortgage statement it just says 2216 though. In the F.M. lookup it comes up as 2216. I’ve also called F.M. and spoken to them to verify and they say that yes, I’m in there and HARP eligible.
So, what is the DU refi+ looking at to get my address? Is there a way for me to find out if that source is wrong and a way to get it corrected so that they match?
Greatly appreciate your time!
Paul,
Do you know if your lender is using the address you listed above when they’re running it through DU? Let me know if you want me to refer someone who can do loans in your state.
Hi Keane, thanks again!
Yes, I’d love some referrals!
The one guy who was doing it really seemed to know his stuff and was the one who explained the address issue to me. Him and I had discussions on which way it was printed on my mortgage statement vs other places. So, he should have been doing it with just the one number (2216) like it is on my mortgage statement and also like it shows up in Fannie Mae.
Hi, I would really appreciate a referral or any information that might help me; I’m in Arizona and seeking a HARP refinance on my primary residence. B of A transferred my loan to Seterus, who can’t refinance me since they’re just a servicer. They’re working with Quicken for HARP, but Quicken told me they couldn’t work with my PMI company (PMI Inc). My LTV is around 100% based on the valuation that Quicken gave me from Fannie Mae. My interest rate is 8%; I’m 10 years into the loan and my payments are current. Thanks.
Am i glad i found this, i have GreenTree and Triad, and last time i tried to refinance with HARP whoever Greentree sent me to said they dont work with TRIAD, im at 6.25%, interested only for 10 years, im 6 years into it. about 125% TLV, can you reffer me to someone that can help me refinance, it sux not being able to find good help..
Forgot to mention, im in Minnesota. and its interest only, not interested only
Dimka, is your loan a Fannie or Freddie loan?
Appreciate your response Keane, My loan is a Fannie Mae loan..
Keane, thanks for your refferal to John, he responded to me verry quickly, and we are in the process of submitting my application, john sais things look good and we sould get results sometime in couple days… Hope this goes through and i can start paying down my underwater home soon
Good luck! He’s done well for many of my readers.
Keane,
Haven’t seen a clear answer out here on this one. I am in Minnesota, greater Minneapolis area, my loan is Fannie Mae, with RMIC as the PMI contract holder. I can’t seem to find anyone that will offer me the HARP products. Any recommdations?
Cal. Im in eagan minnesota and currently working with john bates and planning on closing my harp refi at end of april… Waiting on conditional approval any minute now..
i searched for months untill finding this
Dimka – not finding a John Bates associated with any lenders or realtors in Eagan.
Cal, he is not in Eagan, he is a senior loan officer at Emery Federal Credit Union. i believe hes in New hampshire. Keane reffered me to him and he is the only one that has found a way to help me, Im at 6.825% interest only loan and refinancing at HARP 4.25%, my LTV was higher than 125%, im just waiting for the finnaly approval any minute now. My payment will be lower than it is now and i will be paying principal.. Im sure when Keane gets to this post he will reffer you to him, or i can give john your email..
My quest is over! And a big, heartfelt thanks to you Keane for this blog and all the information you share. It’s been an education. I had one lender I spoke with who thought he could do my HARP and after I explained my situation he commented that I actually know more about the program than he does.
I was not eligible for HARP 1.0 for 4 different reasons. I was super excited when HARP 2.0 came out as all 4 of those exclusions had been addressed…. including LPMI.
For some mysterious reason my app would always get rejected from DU and I would get an inaccurate or non-sensical answer from the lender as to why. So, I kept coming back here, reading the blog, reading comments, asking questions — and Keane kept answering.
After 12 months of being told I’m not eligible countless times, I got a referral to a lender from Keane. I had figured out that my LPMI was not done in a traditional way at all and was likely a Credit Enhancement. The automated system won’t approve those and that was where most lenders give up as they just don’t have any working knowledge of what’s going on, what a Credit Enhancement is or how to deal with it. Finally, thru Keane’s referral, we were able to get it done.
It was not an easy process, it took about 3 months and gobs of paperwork.
The results: cut my interest rate by more than half and reduced my monthly payment by about 28%.
Don’t give up. If the lender you are talking with cannot document why you aren’t eligible or why you are getting rejected, don’t believe it. I spoke with a lot of lenders who only knew the basics. Get educated, study this blog, ask questions and verify everything you are told. You can download documents on Fannie Mae about their program on their website to check facts (if you can understand it all). Had I taken the answers I was given, I would have never gotten it done.
Thanks Keane for sharing knowledge and for the great referral!
Paul,
I’m glad you got your loan done! It seems more people are being helped, as the horror stories have been less than in the past.